Disabled Journalism - with Cara Reedy

Episode Transcript

Keith Casebonne (00:00):

You're listening to You First: The Disability Rights Florida Podcast. In this episode, we talk with Cara Reedy about being a disabled journalist, the toxic productivity of the journalism and news industry, and what her organization, Disabled Journalists Association, is doing to combat this. Hi. I'm Keith.

Maddie Crowley (00:35):

And I'm Maddie. And we're the hosts of You First. Welcome back for another episode, and today we have a wonderful conversation with Cara Reedy. Cara Reedy is the founder and director of the Disabled Journalists Association. As she will soon tell us, Reedy started her career in journalism and spent 10 years at CNN producing documentaries and writing. Cara has spent much of her career studying disability and its coverage in the media, and as a part of her work, she trains newsrooms to tell more robust and investigative stories about disability. In addition to her work in the journalism industry, she works tirelessly to help change the narratives of disability in the film and TV industry. Needless to say, she's a badass and also so funny and witty, and I just loved the conversation so much.

Keith Casebonne (01:25):

Yeah. Me too. She is clearly awesome, has a natural talent for storytelling and journalism, and it's just great that someone with her skill and charisma is leading the way in this space. So without further ado, here's the interview. Hey Cara, thanks so much for being our guest today. We're really honored to have you here. If you could give us a brief introduction about yourself and a visual description.

Cara Reedy (01:48):

Hi. So I'm Cara Reedy. I'm a journalist and a brief description. I am a light-skinned African American woman with two French braids and a pair of light blue headphones, and I'm wearing a green cargo dress that's my new favorite with a high collar. So I'm a journalist and a writer. I used to be or sometimes am an actor, but that's sort of gone by the wayside. I'm also the director of the Disabled Journalists Association, which started about a year ago. We've been working to set it up and it's been a long process, but it's starting to gather steam now.

Maddie Crowley (02:43):

Awesome. Thank you so much, Cara, for being on the show. This is Maddie. I'm a white person with blondish brown hair wearing a white collared shirt. And first of all, I really like your outfit. I'm going to have to know where you got that dress, but as you noted, you're a journalist, a very accomplished journalist who started the Disabled Journalists Association. So just as a way to get started, can you tell us how you got into journalism?

Cara Reedy (03:11):

Yeah. So it's a circuitous story. It's not, I didn't go to journalism school. I have a degree in political science and most of the degree in theater, I think I was double major. And then at senior year, my mom was like just graduate, so I didn't take, I think it was two classes, two classes, short of a theater degree. Journalism was never in my world. I think my brother actually started in journalism and I was like, why would you do that? So I actually had a really rough time in theater. Where I went they just were like, we don't know what to do with you. We're not going to really put you in any plays. And then students would put me in plays and I would do really well, and they were like, you're so good. We're also not going to put you on the main stage. Okay. Because specifically, I guess, I didn't say this in my visual description, I'm a dwarf, and so I guess dwarfs aren't supposed to be represented on stage, at least that's what my school thought.

(04:21):

So I graduated English. I had no idea what I was going to do 'cause the plan had always been to act, but I didn't get much experience in school, so I was confused. And so I went back to art school because nothing says financial stability like art school, and I got a degree in photography 'cause that's a good idea. And then I made another ding dong choice. I went to school in Philadelphia and my first college roommate was like you should come and move to New York and live in my apartment. And what she neglected to say was it was right around 9/11. It was a year after 9/11. And so I moved to New York the year after 9/11. I don't know if anyone knows what the market or anything was like in New York, the year after 9/11, it was dead. No one had any jobs. There were no jobs. So I was living in a disgusting studio, basically a studio apartment with my college roommate with no job and very little savings.

(05:36):

And my mother said, you're going to have to move home because you're running out of cash and we're not giving you any. And I couldn't find a job. I couldn't even find a temp job. So I ended up, she actually ended up making a phone call and I ended up temping at Time Warner Corporate for years and Time Warner at the time, which Time Warner doesn't exist anymore, owned CNN. And I knew that if you stayed somewhere, became permanent and stayed somewhere in Time Warner you could transfer anywhere in their universe. Well, the CNN people in the cafeteria were always dressed the most comfortably. And I was like, they look like they're financially stable. Why don't I just head on over there? And I applied for several jobs and didn't get them, but there was this lady who I used to have conversations with in the cafeteria about macaroni and cheese and mashed potatoes. One day I was on a bus going home and she was also on my bus, which was never, she usually didn't pick that bus. And she came up to me and she goes, we don't know each other's names.

(06:56):

Let's talk for real. And she asked where I worked and I told her. I said, where do you work? She said, CNN. And I was like, funny, you should say. I've been trying to get in there. And she said, well, next time you see a job, tell me immediately. And literally a week later, a job came up on the morning show to be an anchor assistant. And I called Arlene. Arlene was Lou Dobbs' assistant. Lou Dobbs just died this past week. So she was his long suffering assistant. And I called her and she said, great. And they called me down and that's how I started journalism, random bus trip, trying to get out of a Excel spreadsheet job. But once I got there, I was mesmerized by the action and the dedication that everybody had to a job that's very punishing.

(08:06):

But it felt, back then, it felt very much like a energetic kind of blue collar job where everybody was there for a reason and the reason was to get the truth and the story out. And then right after I got there, six to nine months after I started at CNN, we got moved to the doc unit, the documentary unit. And then that's when, not that I wasn't excited about being on the morning show, 'cause I was, but the doc unit really hit my sweet spot because of the storytelling and the long form and the being able to meet people, and get their story out there. And so that's when I really was like, oh, this is, I could do this. This is my life. I got it. But it wasn't that easy because being a dwarf does change your perception in other people's head, the perception of you in other people's heads and what you can do.

Keith Casebonne (09:24):

Well, that's quite a story, honestly. The background of that's amazing. First of all, again, I'm Keith. I'm the cohost of the podcast. I'm a white man with dark hair and a salt and pepper beard wearing a bluish purple shirt and headphones with a microphone in front of me. So I think the lesson here might just be, like just follow your dreams and if you follow your dreams, you're going to stumble into the right place because theater, art school, photography, someone on the bus helped you get a job at Time Warner, I'm sorry, you're at Time Warner, someone helped you out with CNN.

(09:59):

It's like the perfect example of just what looks good and you point in that direction and you go, and it might not be what people would imagine is the straightest path, like going journalism school and doing, but you had a hell of a journey and then got to that destination. So I love that. I think it's an incredible backstory to where you are and so much more interesting and probably fulfilling and making you more of a whole person than maybe someone who limited their experiences and just focused on the one path. So I think that's really great.

Cara Reedy (10:30):

I think it makes me a better journalist, honestly.

Keith Casebonne (10:32):

Yeah. I bet.

Cara Reedy (10:35):

Because I've been in so many different places that I understand, my best skill, I have two skills as a journalist. The people have different skills. Two skills that I lean heavily on are research. I'm really good at research and I'm really good at talking to people. And part of the reason I'm really good at talking to people is because I've dropped myself in so many random places that you have to be able, as a journalist, no matter who you're talking to just be like, okay, I'm just here to talk to you. I'm just here to get your story. I need you to trust me. And also being trustworthy, I think the journalism industry is going through a lot of issues right now, and trust is a major factor in that. And it didn't always used to be that way, and it shouldn't be that way.

Keith Casebonne (11:39):

Right. It shouldn't be. But, no, you're right. That's a certainly unique set that can really help you in this role for sure. So then after that, got a job at CNN, moved into the documentary unit. What prompted you to start the Disabled Journalists Association? How did we get from there to here?

Cara Reedy (12:02):

I was at CNN for 10 years and I never once got promoted out of assistant.

Keith Casebonne (12:08):

Oh. Wow. Wow.

Cara Reedy (12:10):

So rage, total rage. No. [inaudible 00:12:14] I was super angry. Anyone that knew me at CNN would be like, she's kind of angry 'cause I was angry and I spent a lot of time at CNN being angry. Whatever the bar was to get a promotion, I would exceed it and then they would move the bar. It was constant. It was in different departments, so you can't really target it to the documentary unit or anywhere. It was everywhere. I had some of the worst things said to me at that place, discriminatory, horrible things, and they got away with it, and I left CNN broken. I'm going to be real. I was super broken. People were like, what are you going to do when you leave? And I didn't have a plan and I also was not capable of working when I left.

(13:12):

I was so messed up in the head that I couldn't work because I didn't, when you spend 10 years somewhere where they tell you you're good on one hand and then tell you that you can't take credit for being good, you're not allowed to be rewarded for being good, that is a major, that's 10 years of gas lighting and you don't know who you are at that point. I also did not have a firm foundation in the disability community. I didn't have relationships, so I felt very alone. And I spent, I think it was five years, four years, four years wandering. I had a little bit of money saved up, and so I lived off of that. I worked at NPR for a little bit, but I thought it would be different and it wasn't. It was better, but it wasn't what I needed it to be comfortable or safe. So I did not pursue a full career at NPR because of that. And then again, 'cause this is how my life works, I was interviewing Lawrence Carter-Long for this piece at NBC.

(14:36):

I used my connections to do a little piece at NBC because not to say I didn't have any friends at CNN, because when I say that, it sounds like I had no friends there or no supporters, and that's not true. There's lots of people that supported me but couldn't get past the bar that the institution had set for me. So I was doing the interview, which actually never aired, but literally two weeks later, Lawrence called me and he said, I think I have a job for you. Where? And he said, Judy Heumann wants to talk to you. And I was like, how would Judy Heumann know who I am? And he's like, because I brought you up to her, and she said, let's meet. So I met with Judy, and Judy had just written a white paper for Ford about the media and it's representation of disabled people. And so I don't know if either of you knew Judy, but I went through two two-hour grueling interviews to get this job that had no title or description really.

(16:00):

And, oh, I got it. And the first day Judy said, so how are we going to change [inaudible 00:16:07] Like how are we going to change advertising, journalism, and film and TV? Go. What are your ideas? And I was like, what? Like give me a couple weeks. Let we come up with some plans. She said, fine, you got two weeks. So I came up with 10 ideas and then we went off to Ford to get funding for one of them, like just a meeting. And one of the ideas was Disabled Journalists Association, and Ford was like, that's the one. We'll fund that. Which I was actually really excited about because the one thing that I never had was a support system. I didn't have anywhere. I joined National Association of Black Journalists and they were fine, but they didn't get the intersection of being Black and disabled, so there was a lot of conversation about, well, you should hustle more. I was like, if I hustle anymore, I'll be dead. But so to me, this was such a, I was so happy that they funded it.

(17:16):

'Cause I was like, we can have a space where someone and I do, I get phone calls all the time from people that are not doing well in newsrooms and I just sit and listen. And that's, yes, we're going to build a larger infrastructure and, yes, we're going to do a lot of other things, but I think the biggest benefit right now is just there's somebody at the other end of the phone who can validate the feelings that everyone's having. No. It's not you. You are good. No. It's them. They're awful. Let's see if we can connect you to somebody that can help, a lawyer. Let's talk about any resource that I can find that I can get for them I try and do. 'Cause, you know, what is it? Be the person that you needed? That's what I'm trying to be.

Maddie Crowley (18:28):

Thank you for that background. And then again, like Keith said for the question before this, what a wonderful kind of way to stumble into this work. Obviously you are passionate about journalism and everything fell into place and I, some of the, and obviously you're a journalist and a beautiful storyteller just in the way you tell that, so thank you for giving us that background. I think you hinted on something that we wanted to talk about when you're talking about the Black Journalists Association, that being a journalist is so demanding and tiring and you have long hours with little reward and it's like this factor of the job that you just need to accept and all this stuff, but it's again, really demanding and really inaccessible and inherently ableist as a career. So we were curious, could you talk a little bit about how do you navigate that, advocate for that, for the career and space to be more accessible and how do other disabled journalists continue to challenge the expectations of the career?

Cara Reedy (19:44):

So [inaudible 00:19:46] the whole industry is super ableist. The way they function is ableist and it's also creating disabled people. I can't tell you the amount of people I knew at CNN that had to take the sabbaticals for mental breakdowns or they would gain a lot of weight and very quickly, and I knew and like all of the conditions that come with that, but it's mostly just stress. There's people that have PTSD running around these places and none of it needs to be. Obviously war correspondents, you're going to see stuff and that's a factor of that job that's probably always going to be, but the rest of their people, I'm not sure, need to be pressed that hard. I don't know that you need to work 24/7. I don't really think that, you know, when I first got there, I was working for two anchors and one was a normal one and a normal person and the other one was not, and the other one used to email me literally all day and night and expect a response.

(21:11):

They would say, I don't expect a response, but they expected a response. So, you know, I was sleeping a couple hours of night. I gained and I've never taken it off. I've probably gained 20 or 30 pounds while I was there and all of the associated health risks with that, especially as a dwarf, I have mobility issues now because of that. I'm not alone. I'm just an example of, yes, I started out disabled, but there's a lot of people that are disabled. I knew somebody who had a heart attack at their desk and then came back the next day. And with that one at least our manager was like, go home. You do not belong here today. Get out of here. But none of it needs to be, the schedule doesn't need to be. A lot of what, the conversation that everyone is having right now, not just in journalism, but do you need to be in the office for eight hours a day, five days a week? Is that really a thing?

(22:27):

'Cause we know it's not really eight hours, it's 10 hours because people don't get their stuff together, and so then the meeting's delayed, so you're just sitting around. Like why do you need to be there for that? It's the same thing in journalism. You don't need to be in the same room as your editor. You're a writer. The pandemic proved that. None of this is real. All of these requirements for journalists is not really real. I think that journalism, I think part of the reason why journalism is struggling so much is because it refuses to change. It refuses to modify itself so that more people can be in the room. Some disabled people can't work a full-time job. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be a journalist. It means they don't work a full-time job. And there are a lot of forces around journalism right now that are gaining steam to change all of that because it's not healthy for anyone and it's not getting the story.

(23:44):

The work is not better. There's just more of it. I think, I'm not going to say it was the healthiest place when I joined because it wasn't. There was a lot of alcoholism, drug use, and I'm not shaming anybody, but those were all coping mechanisms for the pressure that everyone was under. And I think journalism is in the process of remaking itself. I think there are a lot of smaller outfits that are coming up and out and making headway, the 19th, the Emancipator, Capital B, all of these places, and most of them are remote and they're doing really good work and they're treating their people all right. And so it can be done. It's just these big conglomerates haven't figured it out yet.

Keith Casebonne (24:47):

Well, it's good to hear that there are groups that are starting to figure it out. I hope that their influence can spread into the bigger mainstream journalistic groups, TV news, and that sort of thing. So let's talk a little bit about Disabled Journalists Association, some of the work you're doing there now. So how does your unique experience with disability influence the stories that you choose to tell and maybe the way that you tell them?

Cara Reedy (25:20):

That's an interesting question because there's a lot of discussion around bias in journalism. Well, you're biased, so you shouldn't tell that story. The principles of journalism are to get the facts and tell the truth. Right? So if I see something because I've experienced something, I can see a larger picture than everybody else. I understand disability more than someone who has not experienced disability yet. And I'm not talking about someone who's disabled or you're related to someone who's disabled because while you may have a greater understanding of it, you are not living it so you don't see it in the same way. So I think it just when you're disabled, your outcomes are completely different than someone else. I came into this world, a Black disabled dwarf who I can't hide, I can't whatever, so every experience I've ever had has been met with my disability. Every perception some person has of me starts with my disability. And so I can't separate that from my thought process. I see oppression faster. I see disability faster. I understand the mechanisms that go into creating oppression because I've experienced all of it.

(27:16):

And that doesn't make me a worse journalist. It makes me a better journalist because I see things that other people can't see. It's like the same thing where people will parachute into a country and try to tell the story. They don't speak the language. They don't know anybody. They don't know the culture. Your perception of what's happening is very surface level. And you may get some facts, but you don't really know what you're talking about. You don't understand intricacies of it, and it doesn't mean you're biased. Yeah, probably.

(27:51):

But so is everyone else. I always think it's funny when people will say, well, you can't tell that story because you're Black or you're disabled or you're this. But nobody says that to the white dudes in the correspondence room when Biden is talking. Oh, you can't ask that guy any questions 'cause you're a white guy, so you got to get out of here. Nobody ever says that. That's why I always, whenever someone says that to me, I'm always like, so then you can't ask Biden any questions. And they're like, what? And I was like, well, you're white guy, so biased, obviously you're pro-white guy. Well [inaudible 00:28:38]

Keith Casebonne (28:37):

The first thing I thought when you mentioned people saying that you're biased because you have a disability, I'm thinking maybe the other people are biased because they don't have a disability and how can they, bias goes both ways. And who's going to talk about disability if not the person with a disability?

Cara Reedy (28:57):

Right. I find that there's very little understanding in newsrooms, in most newsrooms of power, and which to me it's frightening. If you don't understand power, not everybody understand what I, let me give an example because I'm better at examples. So when I have had conversations with other Black women journalists, when I bring up disability, they're like, well, that's something else, and that's a thing. And what I really want to talk about is race, or I really want to do this. And I'm like, right, but here's the thing, Black people are disabled at a higher rate. So if you're not bringing up disability, if you're not talking about it, you're not really talking about race.

(29:59):

You're also, because disability is so integral to why people end up in poverty cycles, how they don't get a full education, because our educational system is inherently racist and targets people, so if you're only talking about race, but you don't talk about disability, then you're missing it. And there's all these like, so people don't understand how power [inaudible 00:30:32] They're so busy trying to fix the one problem, they don't see how all the problems are interconnected and how power is consolidated by keeping us separate and by not talking about the whole and the whole person, talking about the disability, talking about the race, talking about the gender, talking about the sexual orientation, all of these things change your outcomes in American life, but also other places too. But I focus on the United States, but if you're Black and disabled and white and disabled, those are two different things.

Maddie Crowley (31:18):

Yeah. And thank you for telling that story and kind of highlighting that. I think for folks, sometimes this can be a hard thing for people to understand, especially if like you're saying folks in newsrooms and folks just broadly who haven't [inaudible 00:31:33] at power or kind of understand how to position themselves in a conversation or within their career space or whatever, don't have the skill to understand that saying that something, like you can't be biased or you're biased, so therefore you can't do that story. It's like, no, no, no. The point is that you're supposed to be mindful of your bias and check your bias and show up knowing that you have that bias. It's not that you can't suddenly not tell these stories. It's recognizing how the systems of power impact these spaces that we're experiencing and sharing, but doing better and being conscious of them and doing right by them by acknowledging the role that they have.

(32:20):

And I want to just add one thing to what you said is that when people want to isolate these identities, these identities are obviously, like you said, inherently intertwined, and that disability and race coexist. You cannot have one without the other because disability is inherently racial, and race is inherently constructed with disability and ableism in mind. Disability literally has changed. It's a societal construct. It's changed over time and space and decades and in centuries. So someone who was disabled 200 years ago, and it's just the social construction of the "other" and who is of worthy and value in a given society or place. So I just wanted to further just talk that out a little bit 'cause I really struggle sometimes with how people really dig their heels in on this when it's like, no, we are experiencing this together. We are working through this together. And I'm just asking that you're like, you're present in this thought process with me and in the continued understanding of how our power and privileges and marginalized identities enter the space. So I hope that makes sense. But yeah.

Cara Reedy (33:40):

No. It's absolutely true. And I have these discussions all the time too. And if you're solving for only one thing, you're not going to fix the problem.

Maddie Crowley (33:50):

Right.

Cara Reedy (33:52):

It's not that. You're not going to fix it. If you solve for race and forget disability, well, let me share this school's [inaudible 00:34:03] pipeline because that is weaponizing disability against the racial group. And you think that's going to stop when you solve for race? It's not. Because [inaudible 00:34:22] that's the weapon they're using.

Maddie Crowley (34:27):

Yeah.

Cara Reedy (34:27):

So it's funny to me, people can't see it and they just, no, no, no, we're going to solve for race. I mean, okay. Come back to me in a couple of years when you're still spinning your wheel.

Maddie Crowley (34:42):

When you've figured it out...

Cara Reedy (34:43):

Yeah.

Maddie Crowley (34:44):

... in a few years when you-

Cara Reedy (34:44):

Let me know.

Maddie Crowley (34:45):

Let me know when you're ready to talk about it. Well, yeah, thank you so much for all of that. And as we're reconciling with disability and how disability shows up in journalism, how can we think, how can we get more disabled folks involved in journalism both maybe in more of a role? You've held so many different roles within journalism, but both "in front of and behind the camera." And what is your organization, Disabled Journalists Association, what's your goal in how to help with that and move progress forward?

Cara Reedy (35:42):

So we started out doing trainings and some of that was to get inside the newsrooms to see how they were functioning or not functioning. I've been in several, and so I know how those work, but I wanted to hear, they viewed it as I was coming to train them, but I viewed it as I was coming to listen to what their thoughts were like what kind of questions they were going to ask me. And so we spent a couple years doing that kind of everybody was just start, and I'm like, but if you don't diagnose the problem first, what are you starting? You don't know because you haven't diagnosed the problem yet. So I spent a lot of time training newsrooms and listening, and it was eye-opening. It was worse than I thought because there's a lot of ego in newsrooms. So, you know, I'd come in the room and they'd be like, great, glad you're here. We're here for our sensitivity training. Please just let us know the words that we're not supposed to say, and then I think we can wrap it up.

(36:57):

And I was like, well, I'm not going to talk about words 'cause you should know what words not to say. Here's a resource for you for these words. I'm going to talk about how to tell better stories. And there was lots of questions about, my favorite was somebody asked me at the end of a training, how do you mix your advocacy in your journalism because you're an advocate. You're not really a journalist. And I said, well, I said, I am a journalist, and I just spent the last hours spitting out facts about the disability community to you and trying to explain to you how we're neglected in stories and what you've come back with me to me is you are an advocate. So are you saying facts or advocacy? And he was like, what? And I said, facts, are facts advocacy? No. Okay. So then I'm a journalist. And he was like, got it. I was like, great. So that's where they are. And what I realized too, the other thing I realized was I don't know how safe newsrooms are for me to advocate for disabled people to be inside them.

(38:36):

So I had some funders come to me and say, we want to do a fellowship with you. We want to start one. Let's put some disabled people in newsrooms. And I said, no. And they thought I had three heads. And they're like, what do you mean no? And I said, well, how do we set up fellowships to make sure that the people we put in these fellowships are safe, or the people that are being chosen are being chosen because of their skill and also are being allowed to have all the accommodations they need to do the job? I said, because some people will make the calculation to go ahead and take the fellowship, don't worry about the accommodations, and then hurt themselves. And I'm responsible for that. So, no, I'm not doing them yet. And [inaudible 00:39:43] again, they were like, you're not doing them? I'm like, it's not a thing that I think is valuable currently. So with that in mind, I've started hiring journalists under DJA to do journalism. I think that's the way I can ensure safety.

(40:11):

We don't have a ton of money, I'm looking for more, to hire journalists and editors who are journalists as well to produce stories that these other newsrooms are not going to do and be given the space to actually tell the stories that we need to tell, not the watered down version of it where, well, I don't know that that's, There's a lot of I don't know that that's a thing being said to people in newsrooms. And that's a sentence that that sentence is a quote that I've heard, and I've heard other disabled journalists say back to me in different newsrooms. I don't even know how they all know to say I don't know that's a thing, but they all say it to people. I've had it said to me. I remember one time I was at NPR and I pitched a story. Trump was president at that point, and Jeff Sessions was the attorney general, and he was going into all of the laws and taking away all of the recommendations that the previous administrations had made on the laws, like the regulation. And he was doing it to the ADA.

(41:37):

So I said, hey, here's a story. And I was, the immediate was, I don't think that's a thing that. Where did you get that? And I said, here's some policy people that are talking about it. Those are advocates. We can't trust them. You need to go talk to the non-disabled guy who writes disability stories and ask him if it's a story. And it's Joe Shapiro and he's like a nice guy. This isn't a dig on Joe Shapiro, but why is a disabled journalist being referred to Joe Shapiro to find out if it's really a story? Why don't you let the disabled journalist investigate it? And then if you don't think it holds weight after I've investigated it, then say, no, it's not a thing? But there's a lot of that.

(42:47):

So how do we circumvent that is to go around though. And the thing that, something I've learned from studying lots of different things, but one thing, this is going to sound off, but the Black Panthers, the thing that they were really good at people don't really realize is that they were very good at organizing and they were very good at creating their own spaces and creating their own resources. So not only did they create the blueprint for the nation's Head Start program, they also had their own newspaper that was national. Not only was it national, they were the only ones to cover the 504 sit in from start to finish nationally. No one really knows that because they were on the ground, not only were they covering it, they were on the ground helping. And so I look to them and the way they understood intersectionality before we talked about that.

(44:10):

In fact, Ericka Huggins, who was one of the leaders of the Black Panthers, she ran their school in Oakland and she had such innovative programs for disabled kids that would come into this school and she would just figure it out like how I make this school accessible for this kid that Alameda County, when the school closed, the Black Panther school closed, Alameda County hired her to work on their disability policy. We don't talk about that kind of stuff. We just think Black Panthers, marching, guns, that kind of stuff.

(44:52):

So I think of when I'm thinking about disabled journalists, I'm like, how do we do this? I can't fight an entire industry. I can't make an industry change. I can work with people that are willing to listen to me fully. So when we do this original work, we partner with other places that are willing to take us whole, not to chop our stuff up, not that they don't have input on what they want on their side or whatever, but we come to the table with a full agency until the journalism industry remakes itself, which I think it is at this point, but it's not close. We have to act on our own.

Keith Casebonne (45:58):

Well, considering some of the things that you've just mentioned, the newsrooms think the language is more important than the storytelling and the way that you mentioned that some people, you feel like maybe people with disabilities aren't safe in newsrooms. You want to talk about bias, it sure sounds like journalists are biased against advocates. That seems like a recurring theme there. But thinking about all those things and the challenges that are going on, what advice would you give to young people with disabilities who are interested in pursuing a career in journalism?

Cara Reedy (46:33):

I would say gird your loins. Toughen up. It's not easy. It's fulfilling, but it's not easy. One thing I would definitely say is interview the people that are interviewing you. Be specific. And people say, well, I may not get the job. Right. You might not, but you'll be safe. There's a place for everyone. And my, I would not suggest going, starting out at the big ones like I did. Mine was completely accidental, but I would start out somewhere smaller, somewhere where the head of the company is not so from you, where changes can be made quickly if you need them. I think these big conglomerates are just not good at it and aren't safe. That's just real to me. Everyone wants to be at the New York Times. Is the New York Times safe, though? I don't think so. And I'm not just calling out the New York Times. That's just an example. But are you safe? Maybe you will be. Maybe you'll get into a pocket where you have an editor that really protects you, but if the editor leaves, you're on your own again, which I found myself many a time.

(48:20):

The last good boss I had at CNN, and also his boss too liked me and he left and his boss was still there. And as he was leaving, he said, you do, like these are the conversations we were having. He said, you understand that I'm leaving and so I'm not, the protection that I provided you is going to go. And then he said, my boss is still there, so you obviously can go to her. He said, but I think she's going to leave soon too, and then you're going to be alone. And he was right. He was right about all of it.

(49:09):

He left. Pressure started. I would call her. And then she left and I was alone. And it very quickly turned brutal in a way that I wasn't even expecting. I was expecting brutality, but I wasn't expecting that. So I would say get to a smaller place. And it's hard to find these smaller places, but they are there. Local news is dead, but it's being revitalized. URL Media is funneling money to a lot of local places. Find places that are finance by URL Media, places with unions, places with unions. Be really focused on protecting yourself. Understand that you're in danger when you go into these places. It doesn't mean don't go, but be aware.

Maddie Crowley (50:19):

I love that advice, not just for journalism, but I think for disabled folks and a whole host of careers. As we're into these spaces or rolling into these spaces that have historically been so inaccessible and discriminatory against disabled folks, I think that advice, even if folks who are listening or reading the transcript don't want to go into journalism or don't see themselves in media or something, I feel like that is such a good thing for folks to take away that I think anybody should take away that your health and your wellness comes first, and that you do not exist to work. Your productivity is not your worth or your value, and to know how to clock those things. When you're in a space and you start to see those things happening, the odds of it to keep happening are higher. It's not just going to suddenly not happen anymore...

Cara Reedy (51:17):

Yep.

Maddie Crowley (51:18):

... so unless there's systemic change in the things that you're talking about. So yeah, I really appreciate that advice and will definitely be taking that with me as well. So yeah, I wanted to see if you had anything else you wanted to share or talk about, and if not, we can wrap up.

Cara Reedy (51:35):

I just, I feel like that last answer was so doom and gloom, and I want people to understand that I am hopeful that the industry is changing and will change. I don't want to discourage anyone from doing journalism. I also feel like there are a myriad of ways to do journalism now that don't involve you going to a newsroom, but also be conscious that if you're going to start your own thing, that's also a hard road. It's not easy. Nothing's easy in this, but if you really want it, you can have it. I think my trajectory and my story has more to do with just keep pushing. And that's why I've gotten to where I have is because I kept pushing, but balancing, don't do what I did and balance that with listen to your body while you're pushing.

Maddie Crowley (52:49):

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. That's wonderful advice. And I'd be remiss not to say that we're recording this on July 26th, which is the 34th anniversary of the ADA.

Keith Casebonne (53:00):

That's right. Yes indeed.

Maddie Crowley (53:02):

And for those who are not as familiar with disability history, how the ADA came to be, how the National Disability Rights Network came to be, it was because of like families organizing, communities organizing, and journalism. Local journalists in Staten Island broke the stories about Willowbrook. Then Geraldo Rivera did the expose. This is so crucial to people's rights, their ability to exist and be safe, so I appreciate all of the hard work that you've put into this, and I hope that the P&A Network continues to use their access authority to investigate these places and show the world what still goes on in institutions and other assisted living facilities. Because even though ADA is 34 years old, we still have a really long way to go. But it's journalists like Cara and all the folks involved at your org and everyone, all the disabled journalists out there that are really doing huge work to keep us moving in the right direction, so thank you so much.

Cara Reedy (54:17):

Thank you for having me. It was really fun.

Keith Casebonne (54:20):

We were honored for you to be here. Thank you.

Maddie Crowley (54:24):

Thank you so much, Cara, for being on the podcast and just being so real and honest with us throughout telling us your story. I feel so confident knowing that media and journalism will continue to move in the right direction under your wisdom and leadership.

Keith Casebonne (54:39):

Yeah. Definitely. For those who are interested, of course, we have a list of the various things we mentioned in the podcast in our episode show notes for you to peruse and explore and learn more about what we discussed.

Maddie Crowley (54:51):

Yep. And as always, please like, comment, share, subscribe, whatever the actions are where you're listening.

Keith Casebonne (54:58):

Take action.

Maddie Crowley (55:00):

We're at all the major podcast platforms and the recording and transcript are always also available on our website. Your engagement in boosting helps us so much and helps us just reach a wider audience and get more engagement. And finally, if you have any questions or comments about the show, feel free to email us at any time at Podcast@DisabilityRightsFlorida.org.

Announcer (55:20):

The You First Podcast is produced by Disability Rights Florida, a not-for-profit Corporation working to protect in advance the rights of Floridians with disabilities through advocacy and education. If you or a family member has a disability and feel that your rights have been violated in any way, please contact Disability Rights Florida. You can learn more about the services we provide, explore a vast array of resources on a variety of disability related topics, and complete an online intake on our website at DisabilityRightsFlorida.org. You can also call us at 1-800-342-0823. Thank you for listening to You First: The Disability Rights Florida Podcast.